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Member Since: 16 Jul, 2006
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Apr 4 15 1:28 AM
Member Since: 1 Sep, 2005
Apr 4 15 7:57 PM
Apr 4 15 8:17 PM
Member Since: 11 Apr, 2008
Apr 4 15 9:25 PM
Jurgen Kleylein wrote:I think the point of Touropa was to provide a pool of cars above what DB had available specifically for the tourist service. DB actually leased some of their cars to Touropa to supplement that fleet, not the other way round.
Never say never, though. Right about now someone will come up with a fine photo proving just the opposite.
Jurgen , now that you mention it . . .
What you say was true in the early days (1950s-60s) but by the early 1970s the rail tourism business had shrunk so much that the DB took over all the rolling stock of Touropa and the other rail travel operators. I believe this is why the tour operator logos vanished from the sides of the trains around this time. So now the original situation was reversed: the DB owned the rolling stock, and leased it to the tour operators for their excursion trains, while the tour operators continued to supply the personnel. This mirrors what had happened with dining coaches a few years earlier: in 1966 the DB took over all former DSG dining coaches, at which point the DSG logos started to disappear, but DSG continued to supply the personnel.
I also believe I have read that around this time, to pep up their offering to the shrinking rail travel public, the tour operators started offering sleeping coaches on some routes. But you'll have to take my word for it for now, as I can't remember where I read it, and I have no pictures . . . All I can say is based on this information I purchased a LSM model of a CIWL sleeping coach registered to DB in mid-1970s livery to run with my Touropa trains during this period . . .
And BTW I am the proud owner of two of the three LSM Touropa sets you mention. When my layout is set in 1973 or later, I run only the coaches without TOUROPA logos to be prototypically correct, and add the CIWL sleeper, or my new ACME WLAB 174 sleeper with cloverleaf DSG logo, to supplement the TOUROPA coaches.
Apr 4 15 9:46 PM
Apr 4 15 9:57 PM
Apr 4 15 10:57 PM
Apr 5 15 5:02 AM
Jurgen Kleylein wrote:I just noted your mention of the ACME WLABmh 174. That is very interesting too. I feel like we should be taking this discussion elsewhere, though...
Yes it is even more interesting (at risk of going off topic, sorry David, sorry Alan!) when you take into account the little advertized fact that it is a faithful model (and the only one known to me) of the first production run of the WLAB 174, distinguishable from later production by its more peaked roof and its swinging, non-folding doors like those of the Gruppe 53 express coaches. I love it!
Apr 5 15 2:32 PM
David Ingram Seal wrote:Images I have are of mixed company formations with pre war CIWL sleeping cars, have not seen with DSG sleepers,
Member Since: 23 Mar, 2005
Apr 5 15 3:18 PM
Apr 5 15 3:52 PM
Jurgen Kleylein wrote:David Ingram Seal wrote:Images I have are of mixed company formations with pre war CIWL sleeping cars, have not seen with DSG sleepers,I wonder if those CIWLs weren't leased due to a shortage of Touropa equipment. Do you have a timeframe for those photos, David?
Apr 5 15 7:11 PM
David Ingram Seal wrote:Company cars have epoche IV markings and shown between 1968 and 1976.
That is precisely the time period I meant. Touropa and Scharnow had rationalized their operations by merging, and bought Hummel between them, in late 1968 to form Touristik Union International (TUI). This is when the tour operator insignia started to disappear from the coach sides, and sleeping cars started to appear on some routes. A few years later, around 1979, TUI purchased a set of all-new couchette coaches built to its own specifications, with even more comfort, to form the colourful TUI vacation trains of the 1980s, until these also lost popularity and the coaches were sold off to other companies.
Apr 5 15 7:43 PM
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